Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
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February 05, 2009

Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?

Dark_energy_cluster_2 Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Comments

I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

thst helped


spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots

The Daily Galaxy - Great Discoveries Channel -Your Daily Dose of Awe: Science, Space, Tech Follow the Daily Galaxy « Religion -Is the Human Brain a "Belief Engine"? | Main | The Daily Flash: Eco, Space, Science (06/2) »

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


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Comments
I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

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The Daily Galaxy - Great Discoveries Channel -Your Daily Dose of Awe: Science, Space, Tech Follow the Daily Galaxy « Religion -Is the Human Brain a "Belief Engine"? | Main | The Daily Flash: Eco, Space, Science (06/2) »

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


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I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

Verify your Comment
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spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots


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The Daily Galaxy - Great Discoveries Channel -Your Daily Dose of Awe: Science, Space, Tech Follow the Daily Galaxy « Religion -Is the Human Brain a "Belief Engine"? | Main | The Daily Flash: Eco, Space, Science (06/2) »

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


Email this post


Recommend this Article!
Share

| | | 111
diggs
digg

Comments
I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

Verify your Comment
Previewing your Comment


spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots


Posted by: fart dust | June 16, 2010 at 11:01 AM

This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted.

Your comment could not be posted. Error type:
Your comment has been posted. Post another comment
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As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments.
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The Daily Galaxy - Great Discoveries Channel -Your Daily Dose of Awe: Science, Space, Tech Follow the Daily Galaxy « Religion -Is the Human Brain a "Belief Engine"? | Main | The Daily Flash: Eco, Space, Science (06/2) »

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


Email this post


Recommend this Article!
Share

| | | 111
diggs
digg

Comments
I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

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The Daily Galaxy - Great Discoveries Channel -Your Daily Dose of Awe: Science, Space, Tech Follow the Daily Galaxy « Religion -Is the Human Brain a "Belief Engine"? | Main | The Daily Flash: Eco, Space, Science (06/2) »

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


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Comments
I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

Verify your Comment
Previewing your Comment


spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots


Posted by: fart dust | June 16, 2010 at 11:01 AM

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The Daily Galaxy - Great Discoveries Channel -Your Daily Dose of Awe: Science, Space, Tech Follow the Daily Galaxy « Religion -Is the Human Brain a "Belief Engine"? | Main | The Daily Flash: Eco, Space, Science (06/2) »

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


Email this post


Recommend this Article!
Share

| | | 111
diggs
digg

Comments
I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

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February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


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I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

Verify your Comment
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spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots


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i like eating bunnys

i like eating dog poo poo

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


Email this post


Recommend this Article!
Share

| | | 111
diggs
digg

Comments
I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

thst helped

Posted by: gertrude | June 16, 2010 at 10:57 AM


spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots

Posted by: fart dust | June 16, 2010 at 11:01 AM
posted by dr.shadowmaster

February 05, 2009
Is Dark Matter & Dark Energy the Same Thing?
Only four percent of the universe is made of materials we sort of understand. So what about that remaining 96%? For the most part we’ve labeled it under two names, dark matter and dark energy. We have no clear idea what these materials are. But now astronomers at the University of St Andrews are attempting to “simplify the dark side of the universe”. They say the two most mysterious constituents in the universe are actually the same thing.

(Image is the future Supernova Acceleration Probe which may help solve of the dark matter/dark energy mystery).

Dr HongSheng Zhao, of the University’s School of Physics and Astronomy, found that the puzzling dark matter and its counterpart dark energy are so closely intertwined that it’s not clear that they’re even two different materials.

A British astrophysicist and Advanced Fellow of the UK's Science and Technology Facilities Council, Dr Zhao points out, “Both dark matter and dark energy could be two faces of the same coin.

“As astronomers gain understanding of the subtle effects of dark energy in galaxies in the future, we will solve the mystery of astronomical dark matter at the same time. “

Many astronomers believe that both the universe and galaxies are held together by the gravitational attraction of a huge amount of unseen material. This idea was first noted by the Swiss astronomer Fritz Zwicky in 1933, and now commonly referred to as dark matter.

Dr Zhao reports, "Dark energy has already revealed its presence by masking as dark matter 60 years ago if we accept that dark matter and dark energy are linked phenomena that share a common origin.”

In Dr Zhao’s model, dark energy and dark matter are simply different manifestations of the same thing, which he has considered as a ‘dark fluid’. On the scale of galaxies, this dark fluid behaves like matter and on the scale of the Universe overall as dark energy, driving the expansion of the Universe. Notably, his model, unlike many other works, is detailed enough to produce the same 3:1 ratio of dark energy to dark matter as predicted by cosmologists.

Efforts are currently underway to hunt for very massive dark-matter particles with a variety of experiments. According to Dr Zhao, these efforts could turn out to be fruitless. The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN) in Geneva is a particle accelerator that amongst other objectives, an many hope it could potentially detect dark matter particles.

"In this simpler picture of universe, the dark matter would be at a surprisingly low energy scale, too low to be probed by upcoming Large Hadron Collider,” said Zhao.

“The search for dark-matter particles so far has concentrated on highly-energetic particles. If dark matter however is a twin phenomenon of dark energy, it will not show up at instruments like the LHC, but has been seen over and over again in galaxies by astronomers."

However, the Universe might be absent of dark-matter particles altogether. The findings of Dr Zhao are also compatible with an interpretation of the dark component as a modification of the law of gravity rather than particles or energy.

Dr Zhao concluded. “No matter what dark matter and dark energy are, these two phenomena are likely not independent of each other.”

Cosmologists agree that understanding the nature of dark matter and dark energy is key in understanding the expansion of our universe.

“Explaining why the expansion of the Universe is currently accelerating is certainly the most fascinating question in modern cosmology,” says Luigi Guzzo, lead author of a recent paper on the subject in the journal Nature. “We have been able to show that large surveys that measure the positions and velocities of distant galaxies provide us with a new powerful way to solve this mystery.”

Ten years ago, astronomers made the startling discovery that the Universe is now expanding at a faster pace today than it used to.

“This implies that one of two very different possibilities must hold true,” explains Enzo Branchini, who is working with Guzzo to unveil the mystery. “Either the Universe is filled with a mysterious dark energy which produces a repulsive force that fights the gravitational brake from all the matter present in the Universe, or, our current theory of gravitation is not correct and needs to be modified, for example by adding extra dimensions to space.”

Recently professor Jose Senovilla, and his colleagues at the University of the Basque Country in Bilbao, Spain, has recently proposed a mind-bending alternative to dark matter and energy. Their model shows that if time itself is slowing down, as in accordance with their new theory, our solitary time dimension is slowly turning into a new space dimension. Therefore the far-distant, ancient stars seen by cosmologists would from our perspective, look as though they were accelerating.

"Our calculations show that we would think that the expansion of the universe is accelerating," says Prof Senovilla. The theory bases it’s idea on one particular variant of superstring theory, in which our universe is confined to the surface of a membrane, or brane, floating in a higher-dimensional space, known as the "bulk". In billions of years, time would cease to be time altogether.

"Then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever," Senovilla told New Scientist magazine. "Our planet will be long gone by then."

Though radical and in many way unprecedented, these ideas are not without support. Gary Gibbons, a cosmologist at Cambridge University, say the concept has merit. "We believe that time emerged during the Big Bang, and if time can emerge, it can also disappear - that's just the reverse effect."

In other words, these are all very interesting theories. Only time will tell—assuming it doesn’t run out before then.

Posted by Rebecca Sato

Links:
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/01/scientist-says.html

http://physorg.com/news120920183.html

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2008-01/satf-tet013108.php

Posted at 12:30 AM in Astrophysics | Permalink


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I love that someone within the scientific community has proposed that the end of time is inevitable. I've thought this for years, but never had any concrete evidence for it. I don't mean that as some religious mumbo-jumbo, but simply as a fact implied by the theory of relativity. If time is, indeed, relative, then who's to say that it isn't in a constant state change? But without time, what happens to all the other dimensions? Do they end up just existing without changing at all? Because how can something change except over time?

This is all very fascinating to me.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 03:52 AM

Mathematically time has to have an end.
For example, take one second and divide it in half, now take that half and divide it again and so on...
There will become a point where either the smallest unit of time is left (quantum time unit) or a value of 1 second/infinity. Infinity is not a number; it is a conceptual non-limit without empirical representation. 1/infinity (if possible) would be equal to zero. Now take and change the one second to one billion years:

1 sec/infinity = 0 time
1 B years/infinity = 0 time
The two values would be the exactly the same. (All empirical relevance is lost when a number is factored to infinity)

So, there needs to be a quantum time unit (the string theory presents this nicely), apply the same mathematical reasoning as above to the quantum time unit and again there cannot be an infinite number of quantum time units. Time has to have a starting point and have an end point. Then universe started - the universe will end.

A point of logic the author missed: Without time there can be no distance, the entire universe would be reduced to a single point.

Sounds like the start of a Big Bang to me.


Posted by: SB | February 05, 2009 at 06:00 AM

Fascinating stuff. Thanks, SB.

Posted by: David | February 05, 2009 at 05:29 PM

This article has been added to the Astronomy Link List

Posted by: Astronomy Link List | February 06, 2009 at 02:00 AM

SB -
Would you care to explain your statement, "Without time there can be no distance..."?

Posted by: J | February 06, 2009 at 06:08 AM

@SB: By your very same reasoning, we cannot count any number of objects. The set of natural numbers is infinite, therefore every number you could possibly count to, in comparison to the scope of the set, is zero.

You can't use infinity that way.

Posted by: Qev | February 06, 2009 at 09:20 PM

well, time can surely end by the way.
as we know velocity is given by distance divided by time..right?v= d/t.(v=velocity,d=distance,t=time).
as we know universe in expanding at an ever increasing rate, everybudy assumed 'd' in the above equation to be ever increasing and thus we believe there to exist a force which is causing 'd' to increase ans inturn the velocity of expansion to increase too. but a new theory reveals that time can start decreasing too!
now imagine 't' in the above equation to decrease..what will happen?
simply as 't' reduces, 'v' increases, as it did in case we assume 'd' to increase and 't' to remain constant.
all i feel is that maybe universe in not expanding at all, but instead just the time is slowing down due to which we feel that universe in expanding?

Posted by: ankur | February 07, 2009 at 10:13 PM

Indeed a fascinating subject about one of the Upmost mistery for us...Humans.

Agreed that the visible and perceptible matter is only 4 to 5% of that that would support the expansion visible with optical and IR means.

I believe also that math is a 'human representation of a complex form of facts and laws with languages'.....BUT i do not believe that math is universal...it is in our minds....as a good language....with LIMITS.

Agreed also that dark matter and energy may be the 2 faces of same coin......But again and by definition there is a long way to go to prove this.

At the moment is a good theory ...NO Direct observations ...or proof of concept that are the basis of Phisics

It is also true that we have still a lot to learn...and to observe and prove....Math only cannot prove anything...it could only justify some theory.

Theoretical studies are interesting and fascinating

Good article

Regards

Posted by: claudio | February 08, 2009 at 01:18 AM

Don't know if this is what SB meant, but Einsteinian relativity demonstrated that our theory describes time and space as a unified continuum. If time and space cannot be considered separately, then a greater distance in time would necessarily imply a greater distance in space. It would seem that the arrow of time and so-called "dark energy" are the same phenomenon. If one assumes so, one has not explained the why of the arrow of time (or the expansion of space), but then, neither have any of the cosmologists.

Posted by: Jack Butler | February 08, 2009 at 07:58 AM

Beyond Einstein-Hubble And Beyond Darwin

On The Origin Of Origins

Dark Matter-Energy And Higgs Particle?
Energy-Mass Superposition
Mass Simply Reverts To Energy
The Fractal Oneness Of The Universe
All Earth Life Creates and Maintains Genes


A. On Energy, Mass, Gravity, Galaxies Clusters AND Life, A Commonsensible Recapitulation
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/184.page#2125
The universe is the archetype of quantum within classical physics, which is the fractal oneness of the universe.

Astronomically there are two physics. A classical physics behaviour of and between galactic clusters, and a quantum physics behaviour WITHIN the galactic clusters.

The onset of big-bang's inflation, the cataclysmic resolution of the Original Superposition, started gravity, with formation - BY DISPERSION - of galactic clusters that behave as classical Newtonian bodies and continuously reconvert their original pre-inflation masses back to energy, thus fueling the galactic clusters expansion, and with endless quantum-within-classical intertwined evolutions WITHIN the clusters in attempt to delay-resist this reconversion.


B. Updated Life's Manifest May 2009
http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14988&st=480&#entry412704
http://www.the-scientist.com/community/posts/list/140/122.page#2321

All Earth life creates and maintains Genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - All create and maintain genes.

For Nature, Earth's biosphere is one of the many ways of temporarily constraining an amount of ENERGY within a galaxy within a galactic cluster, for thus avoiding, as long as possible, spending this particularly constrained amount as part of the fuel that maintains the clusters expansion.

Genes are THE Earth's organisms and ALL other organisms are their temporary take-offs.

For Nature genes are genes are genes. None are more or less important than the others. Genes and their take-offs, all Earth organisms, are temporary energy packages and the more of them there are the more enhanced is the biosphere, Earth's life, Earth's temporary storage of constrained energy. This is the origin, the archetype, of selected modes of survival.

The early genes came into being by solar energy and lived a very long period solely on direct solar energy. Metabolic energy, the indirect exploitation of solar energy, evolved at a much later phase in the evolution of Earth's biosphere.

However, essentially it is indeed so. All Earth life, all organisms, create and maintain the genes. Genes, genomes, cellular organisms - all create and maintain genes.


Dov Henis
(Comments from 22nd century)
http://profiles.yahoo.com/blog/2SF3CJJM5OU6T27OC4MFQSDYEU

Posted by: Dov Henis | August 11, 2009 at 11:49 PM

Dark Matter and Gravity are aspects of Dark Energy.
They are not seperate forces; they are one force - Dark Energy.
see darkenergytheory.wordpress.com

Posted by: Frank | December 16, 2009 at 08:55 AM


It looks to me that before the big bang, whatever there were, were held together by a force. The very force created conditions resulting in the big bang which took place billions of years ago. As a result, there was a great dispersal and every chunk sped away from every other. What are being observed by us today are therefore entities from the fringes of deep space at great distances in excess of billions of light years. Hence the observed acceleration in the movement of those entities is what was taking place so long ago at times immediately following the big bang and we really do not know the status of those entities as of today. For all I know, they might have reached the end of their tether a long time ago, having been overcome by the very same primordial central force that held them together in the first instance and at this time they may be in the deceleration mode. The dark matter and the dark energy therefore may be the manifestation of that central force. I am not an astrophysicist but only an engineer and I shall be only too happy if someone can figure this out.

Posted by: RAGHAVENDRA RAO | December 18, 2009 at 04:17 AM

thst helped

Posted by: gertrude | June 16, 2010 at 10:57 AM


spam clear ming ming chin chong this helped me choose a pet bunny to eat carrots

Posted by: fart dust | June 16, 2010 at 11:01 AM
posted by dr.shadowmaster


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